Tagged: General Discussion
July 9, 2020 at 1:04 am #7583profile inactive, exited bcgRegistered Boarder
Is there any solution to the problem of operators marking useful comments as offensive in MMB? Are we incapable of doing anything about it?0July 9, 2020 at 1:18 am #7585adminKeymasterTopic Author
Thanks @dileepvn for raising this important subject. I was fed up with this and made a decision to start this forum. Though it has helped long time investors to share information but the new investors are unfortunate. Lets discuss what can be done,
July 9, 2020 at 8:07 am #7587buffetRegistered Boarder
- promoting this forum
- reporting to MMB support
- requesting network18/moneycontrol in their twitter
Lets tag moneycontrol CEO as well with mmb support ticket details & explain how operators are using mmb board to manage perceptions & price. Ultimately retailers are getting impacted everywhr.
Ask is very simple.
– The mmb should not hide the msgs unless proved really offensive thr their review process. Currently, it’s opposite. Msgs are hidden immediately when marked offensive.2+July 9, 2020 at 8:10 am #7588VALUEBUYER001Registered BoarderJuly 9, 2020 at 8:58 am #7586bhalothia9Registered BoarderJuly 9, 2020 at 8:59 am #7589
Some information with money control operators with proofs. A boarder by name tracker_tucker has joined yesterday 8-7-20 (proof page 1 of the attached document) Posted 16 messages with in 12 Hours only on Lycos.( proof pages2,3,4,5 ) in his profile he has other name for the messages he posts can be seen When I post a message in MMB that was not published in BCG board( proof screen shot just before posting Last page)
If this group is going to represent this to Money Control Authorities or any other forum this information is useful. My user name in Money Control is BBPopuri and I am Pro Subscriber. Profile information is real wherever I am a member. I am willing to provide any additional information if required.
We need to get rid of the unscrupulous idiots from the social forums else the very purpose of these forums is lost.July 9, 2020 at 8:59 am #7591July 9, 2020 at 11:35 am #7596Rathi_bRegistered Boarder
Hello, do you have a premium account? Because I don’t have that problem there. Every message I post gets uploaded in a few minutes.0July 9, 2020 at 11:38 am #7597Rathi_bRegistered Boarder
Btw don’t engage yourselves there. Just watch the comments by the many new people and enjoy, because that place until a few months ago was completely in wilderness.0July 9, 2020 at 3:50 pm #7599DeepakRegistered BoarderJuly 9, 2020 at 5:21 pm #7605
Quite interesting observations on MMB. The guy who was spitting venom yesterday has changed his identity. All the previous messages disappeared from his profile gradually turning positive. I am certain this guy has access to the money control technical teams or he is one among them. He can manipulate his username and everyday he is a new user. These people are playing with innocent retailers and playing the game of upping and dumping. I am collecting screenshots as proofs for their game.
Attachments:8+July 10, 2020 at 9:33 am #7607
@ Saul, thanks for your views I don’t quite agree though. Business is simple or complex, investment principal is very simple; invest for growth or returns or future prospects. We cant justify any investment outside this including investment in start-ups and unicons. Most of them making losses but what they have is super growth. I am giving my views below your comments. It just my views, I may be wrong and I feel this is positive , constructive dialogue aimed at improving our understanding.
There’s a big difference between investing large sums at once and investing small amounts regularly. You should understand the working capital needs of the company, they should pay publishers every month and advertisers pay them after 3-4 months and that’s why accounts payable are very less compared to accounts receivable. They never had large sums to invest at once.
The $500 million you have mentioned is spread over many years, if they had invested the sam $500 million at once then the whole picture would be very different. Why else would they want an LOC? You can see startups receiving large sums at once and that’s why they are growing more.
“”I agree… but even now they invest rs 100 Cr every year which is equivalent to LOC. considering avg receivable cycle of 100 odd days we are investing about 10 cr every month over last 60 to 70 months; I am not expecting these investment to give returns every month/year but after 60 months it should show some benefit ?? I don’t think this is stretched expectation by any angle
Their business model of high money cycle is not changed now it was there before investment; so if we invest 100 Cr in year more than a year earlier in buying media properties; at lest it should show increased sales in following year. I am not expecting even profits but at least sales to grow…and for sales to happen it is irrelevant when we receive payments.“”July 10, 2020 at 9:35 am #7608
My understanding is this : Year 1 you make Rs.100 in revenue and Rs.20 in profits, and you put all the profits back into business again so if you take 20% profit margin, next year you will get Rs.4 extra i.e total profits will be Rs.24 and year 3 it’ll be Rs.29 and year 4 will be Rs.35 and year 5 will be Rs.42 and so on.
If you see the above example, putting all profits that the company got over the years(Rs.108), you get Rs.42 as profits after 5 years. The above example I’ve given is simple and plain, they can’t have 20% growth rates constantly and there will be other expenses and changes in technology etc. Now, according to you total amount spent is Rs.108 but profit increased by only Rs.22 and you consider it bad but imagine if they got all that Rs.108 at once after the 1st year. There’s a big difference right? The growth rate would’ve been very high.
Also after year 1, they won’t receive the Rs.20 profit all at once, some will be stuck in receivables and they get that money in installments.
Firstly receivables are also profits; so I am okay if increased profits is stuck in receivables but here the profits are flat including receivables.
“Issues is not that we are getting return of 48 rs against 108 rs; we are getting 0 % return. When we invest 100 rs we earn 20 rs profit which is investing in business now next year we are again earning rs 20 profit. This is again investing in business and next year again rs 20 profit. How can we jusify inveting USD 500 Mn without getting returns ? thumb rule of investment is we should earn more than what we earn in Bank interest.
I am not blaming management for this investment; however as investor we want to know where exactly money is going and what return it is generating; may be if we invest for return after 10 years…fine but let us know.
We understand there is risk of technology obsolescence and change in business model; so we should invest only when we expect much higher than bank returns. But there is no guidance on future sales or returns.”3+July 10, 2020 at 9:36 am #7609
Whatever cash they have will be used to buy media immediately i.e. when the receivables are realized then that amount will go to pay the publishers. It works in a cyclical way but the problem is that the cycles are very short i.e it happens every month. If you notice properly, they have improved their operating cash flows every year.
You may compare it with a typical IT company but that is not the case. IT companies don’t have this much working capital needs. There are many costs that we have to consider, they have spent money on improving technology (Compass), to pay for products, collocation centers etc. Also they have paid almost Rs.240 crores to banks (including interest) and that is not a small amount.
“”Their business model of high money cycle is not changed now it was there before investment; if they buy additional media properties of USD 500 Mn it should reflect in increase in top line? Lets ignore if money is received back from clients. But sales in flat over 5 years.””
I don’t know how they’ll improve the cash flow once they get the LOC but I give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s easy for us to point finger at them but no one here knows the day to day operations of the company so we should trust them now and if they don’t deliver what they promise then we’ll have the right to ask/criticize them. We can’t jump to conclusions now and we should give them time. They know what they are doing.
“”I also trust in company and its management that why I stayed invested over last 4-5 years. however as a investor I feel its my duty to ask questions and also praise them. If I ask questions doesn’t mean I don’t trust company or If I praise it doesn’t mean that there is anything to question. May be my expectations are more of big professional investors and not like typical retail investor; this could be due to my frequent interactions with fund houses. We receive max questions and sometimes even criticism from our biggest institutional investor…its quite normal.“”July 10, 2020 at 10:04 am #7610
@ Saul. Missed one point; you had mentioned that bcg has paid back big amount of loans in last 5 years.
‘ I am happy they paid back loans. However loan paid back from profits so it is considered in my assumptions. I am saying profits are flat.. despite 500 MN invested in last 5/6 years.5+July 10, 2020 at 11:13 am #7612adminKeymasterTopic Author
Hi @pranil – Please do not copy the entire content of someone’s post when you reply, use the post# instead. Criticism is alright but see that you do not repeat the same things over and gain. Also it will be helpful if you suggest some solutions if you have in mind so that the discussion is more meaningful and everyone stands to gain out of it.0July 10, 2020 at 11:25 am #7613
About copying content; sorry my only intention was to have to the point discussion, I thought if I reply in one separate post the effectiveness will be lost. Anyways I will do this if u feel it’s only way.
About making same point; well this is fact and we should go with this single point to management for clarification/understanding. I had recommended this point in questions for con call but later I realised it was taken out from questions we emailed to company. So somewhere we longterm investors not really bothered about this point. Rest of the points like axis bank, daum, audit etc will happen, I don’t have any doubts. But if we really get the growth going it will be real impetus to growth. So I suggest let’s discuss this point in forum, have final alignment and then approach management by email or concall question.3+July 10, 2020 at 11:36 am #7614odyseeRegistered Boarder
@pranil. Have read with great interest your detailed observations and analysis on the matter of funds deployment and business investments by BCG, and the somewhat disappointing outcome thereof. It is also interesting to observe that you still appear to have faith and belief in the investment made by you, and that the objectives of such an undertaking would be met at some stage, even though none of the three outlined by you have been met thus far. I trust our collective ‘keep the faith’ philosophy doesn’t backfire on us all, after all these years of waiting patiently and believing in the business and the management , and our always being able to justify the abysmally low Market price and valuation given to the company by the investing community. I have been a staunch believer and supporter of Mr Reddy and BCG for many years now, but from time to time troubling questions come to mind.July 10, 2020 at 11:44 am #7615odyseeRegistered Boarder
I should add that a lot of those troubling questions have generally been answered whenever raised. But maybe a few more questions on the investments, returns, impairments and how the LOC could truly generate the much desired growth (even though principally this has been clarified by Mr Reddy and Saul has commented on it).1+July 10, 2020 at 11:46 am #7616
Don’t lose hope, there is immense value in company. We are still generating good cash. And it’s matter of time when we start seeing growth.
My objective is that we should make management more accountable for the investment being made in business. At times investment can go wrong for certain external factors that’s fine but one should be careful. We can’t go On investing year after year without showing any growth plan.
It may be that some part of this investment would have gone in Lycos life, Appolo venture, block chain and AI and ML initiatives. But we don’t get any meaningful updates on these initiatives.6+
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