Forum Replies Created
@ Dear Admn,
I acknowledge your message at #7859 above.
I am not adding anything further but leave the same to the readers of this platform and consider the intelligence of readers’ of this platform much higher than the collective intelligence of all boarders who are posting here.
Therefore, let them read all messages and come to their own conclusion.3+
Thanks @T9C, for correcting me. I stand corrected in my #7847 to that extend in ur #7848.0
@ SAUL in his message # 7838,has now admitted that, the following areas have no clarity,which he mentioned in the above message are,
2. Literally Media
4.Ingress Ventures (spot and edge case)
5. Onomagic etc.
As such large portion of company’s money is channalised in such ways without clarity of any revrnue or profit, it shoud not end up like promoter create their own private companies by externally using the company and its share holders money.
It Appears already they have mentioned that we-endavour and edge case are not owned by BCG. But Bcg’s earlier appointed preident as earlier updated by company, Shri pasipati, is now (some one posted here that he is present CEO of edge case which was stated as not owned by BCG (whether this is correct or not is not known). Is he presently working in BCG also. To that also no clarity is there.
Similarly ‘we-Endeavour’ is also stated by CEO IN ONE CONCALL, as a stock option alternative to the BCG’s Isreal employees/officials.
But whether any money out of the said 1750 crore belong to company is channelisrd in such areas where conflicts of interests are there, that is, for developing those private companies. This become more serious seeing that company in almost all preveous years writting off the succussive preveous years intangible assets as per company’s published ARs of many preveous years.
My worry is whether company money is getting syphoned off, in such private company development.
We need clarity in all these areas.
Let us not conclude any syphoning off or frauds, but let us compel the company to clarify how and where 1750 Crores of company’s hard cash is deployed.5+
This is what I told, that in last about six years they had abouy 2000 crore net profit reported and increase in recievable is 250 Crores (six years back recievable was about 700 crore and now recievable is 950 crore, therefore increase in recievable is only 250 crore since last about six years).
Therefore, net hard cash available with the company during last about six years was 2000-250= 1750 crore for there discretionary spending ( this is not on my assumption basis. If some body is claiming that my above post is by simply assuming X,Y,Z….etc, then they should agree to the point claimed by negetive boarders in MMBthat there profit is only book entries and No real cash).
THIS IF totally reinvested by the company in digital ad tech business, their revenue should have been way higher. But that is apparently not the case here.
Then what are the other areas where major portion of that money chennelised by the company.That should be clarified by the company, which appear to be there in the form of smoke in the above message. But what revenue is generated from that has not been disclosed by company, if at all any.
Those revenue and profit if any has not beem disclosed by the company so far. The company should clarify that area in detail. Now due to @Bitran’s message, it seems @Saul had to realise my point .4+
Dear Saul and Admn,
Let us not further argue on the said messages of mine and Saul or anybody. Let the reader’s read both and come to their own conclusion, as further elaboration will make more confusion with the reader.
BUT ONE THING IS CERTAIN, that the value errosion happended over years due to various and obvious reasons was enormous and it is only natural to catch up those eroded value to its intrinsic value particularly because, now all the issues and problems of earlier years are vanishing or getting solved one by one and in most of those issues only management’s official announcements are pending. I think on this point everybody will have concurrence of opinion.
All the best to all the long term investors.
Please refer my message #7744 & #7745 in general discussion thread and the article posted in #7791 by Admn,
The working capital to the extent of present revenue is available with the company.EVERY YEAR THE NET PROFIT REPORTED LESS the increase in receivable since preveous year is also available with the company for each year.
Now, the question comes whether all the profit of a year is to be additionally reinvested back in business or can it be less than that, so as to have liquid cash balance and to accumulate liquid free cash balance for different other purposes.
The company has not reinvested whole of the net profit of last say six or seven years. If fully reinvested back all the profit in digital ad business, how they have invested in their other failed ventures, and other presently going on ventures and other stated intangible assets under development , all without any clarity.
Thus, the company have to calibrate, how much liquid cash out of the net profit of each year should be reinvested back in business and how much liquid cash should be retained as free cash flow for dubt repayment and divident payment or buy back etc.The company have to calibrate it by proper planning as to how many percentage of each yeat net profit should be retained as free cash balance and how much should be reinvested.
Free cash flow is not a spontaneuos magic like Angel which appear suddenly without any notice.
I have illustrated clearly in my #7744 & #7745 , that roughly 2000 crore net profit reported in last around six years. Receivable six years back was 700 crore and after about six years it increased to around 950 crore. Thus increase in recievable during last about six years is only about 250 Crores.
Thus company had in its hand, hard cash of 2000 – 250 = 1750 Crores approximately and absolutely for its discretionary spending during the last about six years. All other talks are nonsense.
Revenue as per my earlier post should have been increased to approx. 6000 crore had company reinvested whole of it in digital ad tech business with 120 days gestation period or to say 3 times yearly capital rotation cycle.
Thus company definitely channelised major portion of money for other purpose. What are those areas and where is the revenue and profit from that should be explained by company.
The article posted by Admn in #7791 is nothing new and CEO had kept telling since May years that they recieve back the money spend only in 3 to 4 months and the same is reasonably reflected in their number of recievable days, which were more or less same or some times improved also. Therefore there is no doubt there. The same will be helpful for the people who had no clarity till now. Otherwise the same is of no importance as the same was mentioed and reflected in their recievables of all preveous years.8+
On checking the pdf available inthe link , it is seen that the lock-in period for the new 3.14 crore share listed is mentioned as up to 31-07-2021. That is for one year from the next month beginning,
Whereas while issuing the share by the company on 27-05-2020, it was stated that the lock-in period is for six months from the date of issue by the company.
This extended lock-in period up to 31-07-2021,if correct is good for the company as the same can not hit the open market till 31-07-2021.
Other knowledgeable boarders opinion please.
The word’rigged’ inthe third para of my preveous message in This thread may be read as ‘ digged’.1+
@Raj & @ Sateanna,
THE price had a vertical free fall during around 2012 and 2013, due to International Arbitration Award (ICC award) in favour of daum nd subsequent approach by daum to NYC court for its confirmation.
It was due to dumping of shares by foreign holders, to whom BCG (then ybrant) issued shares and raised fund before that, and acquired many foreign subsidiary companies in different countries with that money. They being Foreign funds,know about the developments of ICC award and Nyc court case for confirmarion etc.
Thus a major portion of the dumped share came in the hands of public and HNI investors at low price. A main point apparently happened and to be remembered here is that the ICC AWARD AND NYC COURT case etc were not promptly informed to the Indian investors or Indian stock exchange by the company ( that time only it was listed in BSE through reverse merger). It was after few years, when knowledgeable investors rigged deep and came to know about it and company apparently very late after passage of much time (may be few years later) disclosed to BSE and investors officially about those developments overseas.
THUS company had many compellsions for apparently not being transparent and thereby company’s market camp reduced by more than one billion dollars then (at the prevailing exchange rate then). Still price appears to be at lower level apparently due to many orchastrations and obvious methods and reasons.
Now, all those vexatious problems are apparently over and behind the company. The achievment of company’s market cap to the Intrinsic value in comparison with its foreign as well as indian peers, and its achievement is only a natural process over a foreseeable period bot will be slow and steady but it is certain to happen, as all the problems are getting solved and only wonderful times are ahead (the intrinsic market cap to be achieved may be in 2 to 3 billion dollars if we compare the p/e ratios of foreign as well as indian listed peers of the company, regarding which many discussion happened here by many other boarders as well.
Therefore, the investors buying now are the luckiest lots as they don’t require to undergo the ordeals went through by long term small investor. SImilarly, the investors selling now will be the most unfortunate lots particularly the ones who invested for a long period of time). Traders and very small time investers can please ignor.
Dear Admn, Your point is well taken. Even I do not want such discussion but it is the result of replying to the reply to my message.0
In my post#7744, the last but one line of first para may be read as ‘more than rs 6000 crores by now’.2+
In my message #7738 , my point was if the rs 1750 crore net profit actually available with company in cash during the last six years if fully reinvested in digital ad side alone and by considering capital rotation cycle of 3 times a year their revenue should have been more more than rs 4000 crores by now. But it is far less.
The above means, most portion of those preveous years profit money was channalised in different other purpose. In this context only I expressed doubts on company’s each year spent on intangible assets under development and simultaneous write off of preveous year spend on intangible assets? without any increase in revenue.
This was going on quite a number of preveous years without yielding any tangible result or revenue or profit due the channalisation of company money.
This can be verified by anybody from company’s Annual Reports of many preveous years published by the company in public domain with out any proper clarity regarding, what are those intangible asset shown as under developments in year spending and also what are those written of intangible asset which were written off in each preveous years whith out any clarity.
IN THE ABOVE circumstances , any investor or analysts who track the company naturally will have doubt whether any syphoning of company’s money is happening or not, particularly this ordeal is never ending for many years.
Please note, that I am not claiming any fraud, but only request clarity on those aspects,
@Saul, I think You have not properly read and understood my post/message at # 7738.
I did not express any doubt on companies numbers or recievables figure. Recievable figures are almost in tune with the capital rotation cycle in the business and are almost static with minor variation due to currency fluctuation and revenue variation. Therefore there is no issue at all in that and No clarification also required. I request you to read my above post once more, you will know I did no express any doubt in their numbers or recievables.4+
@Saul, the anology that profit held up in receivables is not valid. If a company start businuss, the first year the argument is correct. But from the second year onwards that is not valid.
From second year onwards, simultaneously the earlier years arrears in recievable will be getting collected and an almost equal amount from current year will be held up in recievable and that will be nullifying each other. So from second year onwards the net net profit available with the company will be more or less equal to the net profit reported from second year onwards with minor variation if revenue for the particular year is more or less.
This can be seen from the fact that the number of recievable days are almost static with minor variation. Slight increase in recievable in rupee term may be due to dollar appreciation against rupee.
So when number of recievable days are almost constant during many previous years, the net profit reported also will be available with the company in all the previous years. So company during past nearly six years made net profit of nearly 2000 Crores, which must be available with the company for usage.
This also can be compared with the recievables of nearly 700 Crores or so six years back and after six years from there, now it is slightly more than THAN 900 crore. The increase in recievables during past six years is only to the tune of slightly more than rs 200 or 250 crore which is due the revenue increse, otherwise the number of recievable days are almost static with minor variation.
So if deducted that increase in recievables of approximate rs 250 Crores during the past six years from the total net profit of approximate 2000 crore , company had the remaing 1750 crore profit approximately during last about six years absolutely at their disposal.
Therefore company have to clarify the deployment of that money, where ever done in detail to tally the above approximate figure.
In successive annual report they are showing intangible asset under development, simultaneously each year they are writing off the intangible assets of preveous years almost every year with out any clarity. In that area also management need to clarify regarding what intangible asset they developed as well as those intangible asset they written off in many a years.
I am not claiming all those are not genuine but investors need clarity as since about a decade they are no more running a private company but this is a public listed limited company.4+
@Saul, the inference/ presumption mainly comes from the fact that,
Promoter not increasing inspite of the lowest price many times.
No buy back done by the company at lower level.
Small investors holding ( less than one lakh shares category) progressively reducing. By now their holding might have come down to less than 2 Crores shares. By SHP as on 30-09-2020 it may further reduce.
All the issues faced by company, it appears deleberatly kept 99% complete. The same appears to be for the completion of ousting the small share holders further to the maximum extent.2+
Please read as ‘ a particular future plan’ instead of practical future plan in second para above. Similarly please read as ‘in BCG conrext’ inthelast line of third para. Similarly read as ‘BCG’ instead of BIG .0
All the investors who have gone through the edited ten script of concall of 02-07-2020, would have seen the CEO mentioning repeatedly at number of places that they have some future plan with the company. This was mentioned in context of trimming the balance sheet to make it more healthy, again inthe context of global audit and again in the context of consolidation of 12 foriegn subsidiaries etc.
Though at innumerous occation CEO TOLD VERY SPECICALLY that they are having a practical future plan but hidden what that future plan really is.
The same also can be inferred from the fact that they are already working jointly with one of the large glogal internet player (is it google or any others) in the field of AI in medical field).But CEO catagorically did not mention who is that large global player in internet.
Recently google announced they are going to invest rs 75000 crore in India as part ofIndia’s digital push and google also announced that this will be including investments by buying equity and by other means (again don’t know whether can be taken in BIG co test.
Therefore above along with my preveous message, it is only my inference and by reading between lines, that BIG IS a potential acquisition/take over candidate by any of the large global player in internet b ussinuss, possibly.
Again for substantiating the above, I have no documentary proof or evidence with me but purely my inference during last many years2+
As an investor since more than 7 years, I am posting the below as per my pure inference as I could infer during the last 6 years price demolition by an organised price manipulators gang. I am not sure whether the same is having the consent of promoters or not,thought.
The price was apparently demolished artificially to the lowest ebb many times during the above period, but any body can see that the promoters did not increase or decrease their holding ( the slight decrease post 27-05-2020 is due to preferencial issue. Whereas, the holdings were increased and accumulated under bodies corporates, NRIs and substantially under public holding more than 2 lakh rupees share capitel (more than one lakh share of rs 2/- face value).
All the above are like open check or demand drafts which can be readily encashable when price reach its intrinsic value.
Any body can see the share holding in public category under one lakh shares in reducing. Particularly if compared SHPs of March 2020, 27-05- 2020,and June 2020 ending SHOps.
The above clear fly shows accumalatio by big investors under public catagory including all the above stated groups.
There, when we see promoters not increasing or decreasing , all this orchestration of demolishing the price apparently may be due to the reasom that company may be a potential take over/acquisition candidate by any big world player at international level valuation which can be e billion dollars or more ( roughly 6 to 8 times revenue). In that scenario one can derive the value off share price and all accumulated share at low demolished price can be e ncashed by the concerned parties at intrinsic price/value at they appropriate time when it comes.
That me pay be the reason company is making the balance sheet healthy and making debt free and global auditing and consolidation of subsidiaries etc and the LOC can be only a ploy or it can be real also.
The above is purely based on my inference/ imagination and reading in between the lines and I HAVE NO PROOF , WHICH MAY ALSO BE NOTED.6+
Refer #7686 & #7701,
The Allahabad High Court ruling mentioned in #7686, in which it is seen mentioned that same matter can not be processed parallely in NCLT and DRT. But that stated Allahabad High Court ruling is not brought to the notice of the JUDGE by BCG in NCLT before the INTERIM ORDER DATED 09-07-2020 of nclt.
Therefore, it is better if some one inform the management about the same so that BCG can bring it to the notice of nclt much before next date of hearing on 28-07-2020.
@ Odysee, It is very evidently clear, that once the preferential money comes,bcg was ready to clear the axis bank loan as per the OTS . That is around 8 or 9 crore (remember bcg was mentioning it as 11 Crores, which may be including penal interest for delay etc.). Therefore, axis bank appears approached a shortcut route by filing in nclt for restraining the company from using the money for other purpose other than axis loan clearance. This was done by the axis bank apparently knowing by them, that if waited till the money atually parrive with the company, bcg may immeadeatly approach the DRT FOR PAYMENT AND CLOSE THE DRT CASE and therefore filed in nclt for restrainting company from using for any other purpose.
NOW, BCG CAN waite till 28-07-2020 . IT APPEARS NCLT WILL ONLY CONFIRM THE RESTRINT TILL DRT DECIDES THE CASE NEXT TIME ON 28TH AND REMIT IT BACK TO DRT for final resolution (where bcg is already ready as per DRT CASE for payi g and close. There fore may not be an issue at all for the company), WHERE BIG WILL HAVE ADVANTAGE AS ALREADY OTS MUST BE A PART OF SUBJECT MATTER THERE in DRT.
IT is also important to note that another point argued by axis in nclt was TO COMPELL THE COMPANY TO deposite the preferential money with THEM IN the account of bcg with axis bank, which nclt did nor agree citing the extent SEBI RULES regarding preferencial money which says it should be kept in a separate account as mandated by SEBI for mandated ways.
THE nclt case was filed by the axis bank, with an intention to compell the company to deposit ,the preferencial money when arrive with the company , with axis bank account of bcg.But that is not allowed by the nclt. Therefore the nclt interim order is in a way is in favour of bcg. Absolutely nothing to worry, the things are very evidently in favour of BCG NOW, and when it reaches DRT , company will have all favourable position.